A blog on objective thought in today's irrational, subjective world tackling some of the hardest questions of existence using reason and logic.
Published on December 3, 2004 By John Galt In Politics
http://www.mychoice.ca

Yes, this is a group of smokers that are upset that here in Canada we're starting to come to our senses and are banning smoking in all public places. Maybe someday we'll even get to the point of realizing that smoking in a house with a child under the age of 18 is ABUSE and charge people as such.

FACT: Second hand smoke is actually worse than the stuff you suck into your lungs with those cancer sticks. This is just as much fact as Evolution. Yes, I said Evolution. Evolution is essentially a LAW that has never been disproven (despite the best efforts of religious zealots that are prepared to call the sky green when it's blue, blue blue). But somehow people have a right to smoke and harm others in the process.

If you want to smoke, smoke in private where the only person you're killing is you. You have that right. I.e. you have the right to be a moron. Heck, if you want to do pot or cocaine or any other drug, you go right ahead, just do it in private and make sure you don't harm others in the process. That is your right. You have the right to be a moron.

What you don't have a right to do is harm someone else in the process of harming yourself. To put it another way, your right to swing your fist ends at my face. Your freedom does not give you the right to harm others. This is a fundamental principle of law going back to Babylonian times and before. It is the only non-contradictory structure for a legal system and for society. Any law that breaks this rule is unjust by definition.

Smoking bans in public places and in house holds with children under 18 (hasn't happened yet, but here's hoping) is just by definition because it protects people from you swing your fist and hitting them in the face.

Of course we have to like freedom of speech and take the bad with the good... so here's another example of the greatness of the concept of freedom...

But you know what? We don't have to give them a forum to speak, we only have to allow them to speak if they find a form to do so. We don't even have to listen.

You want to smoke? Fine, go smoke, but make no mistake, you're killing yourself and if you do it with others around you, you're killing them too. You have the right to kill yourself. You do not have the right to kill others. You don't even have the right to interfere with their lives so that you can harm yourself. If your action harms others, you don't have the right to do it.

If you don't like this, get over it. You're self-centered (notice not selfish, selfish is good) and arrogant (in the true sense of the word) and the height of stupidity. But we can be sure of one thing: You're going to die faster than normal so we won't have to deal with idiots like those that created www.mychoice.ca very long!

But then what do you expect from people that engage in a knowingly destructive practice? Contradiction, breeds contradiction. (spell checked this time)

Comments (Page 1)
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on Dec 03, 2004
A-r-r-o-g-a-n-t.

I don't mean to sound arrogant in pointing that out though. Sorry!

But since we are on the subject...

I agree that smoking should be banned in most public places. And i'm a smoker. Just don't take it out of the bars, that's all i ask. As far as charging someone with abuse for smoking in their own house....Good thing you live in Canada, because that wouldn't fly in the US.
on Dec 03, 2004
I agree that smoking should be banned in most public places. And i'm a smoker. Just don't take it out of the bars, that's all i ask. As far as charging someone with abuse for smoking in their own house....Good thing you live in Canada, because that wouldn't fly in the US.


Hell, I'd love to go to a bar and not smell like a cigarette butt afterwards. Bars are not going to boot out 20% of their client base so volutary non smoking bars are not going to cut it. You want to smoke, go outside and save us all.
on Dec 03, 2004
Oh like booze is any healthier? If you don't like the smoke, go find a no smoking club or better yet stay home and drink. The bars are our last public bastion.
on Dec 04, 2004
Oh like booze is any healthier? If you don't like the smoke, go find a no smoking club or better yet stay home and drink. The bars are our last public bastion.


I don't drink either, but I like to socialize. The only place to do so are crowed smoke filled bars. Talk all you want about your right to smoke, but I believe my right to not have to breath it in is just as important.
on Dec 04, 2004

Reply #5 By: whoman69 - 12/4/2004 12:33:59 AM
Oh like booze is any healthier? If you don't like the smoke, go find a no smoking club or better yet stay home and drink. The bars are our last public bastion.


I don't drink either, but I like to socialize. The only place to do so are crowed smoke filled bars. Talk all you want about your right to smoke, but I believe my right to not have to breath it in is just as important.


I'm sorry but this is just waaaaay uncool. DelMar, Calif no longer allows people to smoke on the streets or in their car. If they're spotted smoking in their car, they are pulled over and ticketed. Where does it stop? I haven't smoked in over 5 years now. But I would and will defend someones right to smoke. You don't want to smell smoke? Then start you *own* bar and prominently post no smoking signs at the door!
on Dec 04, 2004
I'm sorry but this is just waaaaay uncool. DelMar, Calif no longer allows people to smoke on the streets or in their car. If they're spotted smoking in their car, they are pulled over and ticketed. Where does it stop? I haven't smoked in over 5 years now. But I would and will defend someones right to smoke. You don't want to smell smoke? Then start you *own* bar and prominently post no smoking signs at the door!


That is clearly going overboard, they may as well try to ban cigarettes.

Starting a no smoking bar is unfeasible, as I stated earlier because of the built in restriction of losing 20 % of your possible client base before you've even begun. I don't have enough money to pay attention, how am I going to start a bar.
on Dec 04, 2004

Reply #7 By: whoman69 - 12/4/2004 9:52:53 AM
I'm sorry but this is just waaaaay uncool. DelMar, Calif no longer allows people to smoke on the streets or in their car. If they're spotted smoking in their car, they are pulled over and ticketed. Where does it stop? I haven't smoked in over 5 years now. But I would and will defend someones right to smoke. You don't want to smell smoke? Then start you *own* bar and prominently post no smoking signs at the door!


That is clearly going overboard, they may as well try to ban cigarettes.

Starting a no smoking bar is unfeasible, as I stated earlier because of the built in restriction of losing 20 % of your possible client base before you've even begun. I don't have enough money to pay attention, how am I going to start a bar.


If you yourself are unable to start one and you will not frequent the already non-smoking bars, then you should have no gripes with the ones who still permit it.
Or the people who smoke in them. No one is forcing you to use those facilities are they?
on Dec 04, 2004
If you yourself are unable to start one and you will not frequent the already non-smoking bars, then you should have no gripes with the ones who still permit it.
Or the people who smoke in them. No one is forcing you to use those facilities are they?


there are no non smoking bars here. Once again, who in their right mind is going to kick 20 % of their client base out the door?
on Dec 04, 2004

Reply #9 By: whoman69 - 12/4/2004 3:15:01 PM
If you yourself are unable to start one and you will not frequent the already non-smoking bars, then you should have no gripes with the ones who still permit it.
Or the people who smoke in them. No one is forcing you to use those facilities are they?


there are no non smoking bars here. Once again, who in their right mind is going to kick 20 % of their client base out the door?


Then I'm sorry about that. But even so that would not give you the right to say no smoking in bars now would it?
on Dec 04, 2004
Whoman...You're sounding a bit like a broken record here.

I live In Salt Lake City. Which as we all know, is a bastion of purity. But we do have bars. All bars by law have to have a sufficient ventilation system to keep the air cleanliness up to State health standards. We also have quite a few non smoking bars. I have even frequented a couple of them, and find them kinda nice. But i prefer to hang out in a place that allows me to smoke. I pretty much frequent one bar in particular, and i spend a truckload of money when i go. ( i tend to drink like a fish at times...) So by your logic, the owners should just cater to the 20% and chase off loyal and free spending customers? That's just bad business my friend.

Cities and states like NYC, and the State of California have banned smoking in bars, and for the most part have had nothing but trouble enforcing the legislation. I was recently in NYC and found out that a lot of the bars disregard the law after 10 pm because that's when the health inspectors stop making their enforcement rounds. And business goes up when they do.

And for the record. I did quit for six years. During that time i was fairly anti smoking. I can understand your point of view. I just happened to get so stressed out one day that i needed to either light one up, or strangle the SOB that got me so angry.

Speaking of which...Time to feed the demon!
on Dec 04, 2004
I just realized something...Today i have agreed with both drmiller, and Dr Guy. Am i in some bizarro universe?
on Dec 04, 2004
Am i in some bizarro universe?



on Dec 04, 2004
[
Then I'm sorry about that. But even so that would not give you the right to say no smoking in bars now would it?


I can't tell anybody to do squat. I can make my opinion known but it would be to no avail because we have a nutcase here in town that believes he is more important than he is promising to ban cigarettes in the city entirely. Any sort of concessions on cigarettes would make this self important idiot feel that he is actually doing something. The guy has run for mayor and never gotten more than 1 % of the vote, has tried to win several offices but can never get past the primaries. He goes to every council meeting and makes a speech, so everyone hates the guy.
on Dec 04, 2004

Reply #14 By: whoman69 - 12/4/2004 4:27:09 PM
[Then I'm sorry about that. But even so that would not give you the right to say no smoking in bars now would it?


I can't tell anybody to do squat. I can make my opinion known but it would be to no avail because we have a nutcase here in town that believes he is more important than he is promising to ban cigarettes in the city entirely. Any sort of concessions on cigarettes would make this self important idiot feel that he is actually doing something. The guy has run for mayor and never gotten more than 1 % of the vote, has tried to win several offices but can never get past the primaries. He goes to every council meeting and makes a speech, so everyone hates the guy.


Maybe you should smack him in the head once, just so's he gets a clue?
on Dec 04, 2004

Reply #12 By: thatoneguyinslc - 12/4/2004 3:57:24 PM
I just realized something...Today i have agreed with both drmiller, and Dr Guy. Am i in some bizarro universe?


Stranger things have been known to happen.
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